PrintMix 104.9 - Territory Rights Amendments; Marine Protected Areas
PETE DAVIES:
Commonwealth Ministers have been stripped of the power to veto Territory laws at the stroke of a pen. This follows the Federal Parliament passing a Greens Bill yesterday. But strangely, the Country Liberals Senator for the Northern Territory, Nigel Scullion, and the Honourable Member for Solomon [Natasha Griggs], voted against it. Nigel Scullion, why did you let us down?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well I haven’t let you down, mate. Not at all. See, what’s been put forward to the Territory by some elements of the media is that somehow we have new powers. Let me just explain this to you. I have lived and breathed this Bill, and I’ll commend those people who are knocking me to read it themselves. Let’s say, for example, we provide something like the euthanasia laws or something in the Northern Territory that the Federal Parliament doesn’t like. Well what happened last time is that a Federal Parliament has to debate both houses of Parliament before they can overturn that. That was that yesterday, it’s exactly the same tomorrow. There is absolutely no change. But look, if the powers you’re seeking now, you need to be excited as a Territory that we can now legislate – unlike all the States and the rest of Australia – we can now legislate to have an army. We can legislate to have our own currency. We can actually legislate so we can actually tax income. We can also legislate for marriage. So these are all things – there’s a whole mob of them – that are listed under Section 51 of the Constitution that says that States can’t do these things, and the Commonwealth can only do these things.
PETE DAVIES:
But Nigel, wasn’t it fundamentally wrong that a Federal Minister had the right to over-rule, or declare invalid, a law that was enacted by a duly elected Parliament of the Northern Territory. That was wrong, and that was removed yesterday.
NIGEL SCULLION:
No, that’s not correct. It’s simply just not correct. Only in so far as it was in contravention with Section 51 of the Constitution. So it only allows to, by executive ?, move out from army to currencies, taxing, and all those sort of things, right? But no other State is able to do it. So look, if you think you support Statehood, remember to gain Statehood, it’s not only support by Territorians. We need to secure the support of Federal Parliament which is fundamentally all those other States that currently have this right. So I’m just not sure what sort of message we’re sending to southern politicians and the rest of the States, that the Territory wants to be able to legislate on things a State can not legislate on.
PETE DAVIES:
So we’re sending a message. The under-dog is sending a message to the rest of them, right?
NIGEL SCULLION:
That we want more powers than they have.
PETE DAVIES:
All we’re simply asking mate is to be treated as an equal. And that’s why we supported this vote yesterday.
NIGEL SCULLION:
But we’re not. I can guarantee you 100%, if we are to be treated as an equal, then there has to be a mechanism under which you overturn legislation from States, or in fact from Territories, where they are not able to legislate under the Constitution. And what this has done, by default, has made us different from the States. It’s because the States get theirs overturned immediately by a High Court process. But because that isn’t recognised in the Constitution, by convention, the Federal Government has dealt with all of the Territories – and it’s more than the ACT and the Northern Territory, it’s the Indian Ocean Territories and Norfolk Island – which said that if it is in fact part of Section 51 of the Constitution and you’re not allowed to legislate on this – and this whole thing was about same-sex marriage, because marriage is part of those things under Section 51 of the Constitution, and so it is just a mechanism. They’re still able to overturn it. So why – and this is a sensible question – why would I, in the Territory? I want the same rights as a State. I don’t want more rights than a State. We have all been used by the Greens in an attempt to reinvigorate same-sex marriage in the Northern Territory. In fact, on the same day, when this was introduced it was the Australian Capital Territories Self-Government Amendment, it didn’t even have the Territory in it. This is just a gammon piece of legislation put forward by the Greens. Just because it might be a bit popular, it might be a bit of this, you’ve got to keep your eye on the longer goal, and that is Statehood. And as I’ve said, we’ve just sent a message to others. Not that we’re the underdogs, we want more than you’ve got. We don’t want equality; because that would be exactly the signal we should be sending. We want more than you’ve got. We want to able to legislate on all of these other things and have a period of time under which it can’t be overturned. In fact, rather than exactly as the States have, which the High Court simply overturns it.
PETE DAVIES:
Okay, you said earlier on in our chat that we need the support of the Federal politicians. By you and Natasha Griggs voting against this yesterday, haven’t you actually sent a message to them that “oh well, you know, we’re not really interested”?
NIGEL SCULLION:
No. Not at all. I actually stood up and fronted this whole debate. I’ve already voted for it – this was some time ago – in the Senate. And everybody who’s here understands entirely why we have the position that we have. We won’t be used. We won’t be used by the Greens and this is not the legislation we require. If you want some equity what we will do, is the mechanism for overturning a law in the Territory should be exactly the same mechanism as overturning a law in the States. Now the States are referred immediately to the High Court because the Constitution doesn’t allow that. But it’s that immediacy that’s important. The only way to have that immediacy is to have the capacity for the Federal Parliament to be able to overturn it. But as I said, at the end of the day, we need the same rights as other States. We wanna be a State. So it’s just pointless saying what we’re going to start out with is some ambit claim that “oh, by the way, all of you southern States, we want more rights than you” and I don’t think think it makes any sense at all to me. And I can tell you right now there is nobody in this Parliament or anywhere in the Northern Territory has any doubt at all about my position on any of these matters. These are complex matters in terms of Constitutional Law, and I know they’re not easy to understand on the first fling. But I’m not going to be caught up on some wave of populism just because it’s got the word in it “self-government” and Statehood somehow blithering in there. You’ve got to get into the detail of the legislation, and I believe by supporting this legislation we wouldn’t have been supporting the long-term goals of statehood. I tell you, I’m buggered if I’m going to be one of these people that just say, “oh look, the Greens are doing it, we’ll just go along with it”. As a lawmaker we have to carefully study the consequences and make sure that we are acting in the interest of Territorians. I’ve always done so and I’ll always continue to do so.
PETE DAVIES:
Has this got anything to do with the ACT’s intention to introduce gay marriage legislation?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well that’s exactly what it is. That’s exactly what it is. There’s no question at all. We all know exactly what this is about. But what this does –
PETE DAVIES:
Don’t you think it’s about time we get over the homophobia and get on with running the country?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well look, this isn’t about homophobia.
PETE DAVIES:
Well I think it is.
NIGEL SCULLION:
It isn’t. It is not. Look this is a constitutional matter. If the Australian Capital Territory or Queensland, or anywhere else, decides they want to change the law in terms of marriage, they’ve got to change the Constitution to allow the States and Territories to do that, or they need to have the legislation changed Federally. That’s just the way it is. This isn’t about homophobia. This has been an annoyance, because the Greens are using the Territories to continue to pursue their own agenda. That isn’t in the interest of Territorians to continue to pursue the Greens agenda. There are ways to go about this and I understand at the moment, that same-sex marriage, as a proposition, will be coming to the Federal Parliament. People are mooting that in the future. And we’ll debate that and go through that as we would do normally. But this is quite clearly, this will give the opportunity for people – after it comes out of the Australian Capital Territory Parliament – it will give the opportunity to all get married over a period of maybe a week or two, under which that actual marriage will be lawful. So it’s a gap in the Constitution, that what will you do with those people then? It’s not unlawful, they’re the only ones that have been married. And it’s all part of the same mischief that has been put forward by the Greens.
PETE DAVIES:
I’ll bet if you did polling that showed that the gay lobby would deliver a shitload of votes, you would all change your tune.
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well look mate, if you want to talk about same-sex marriage, we’ll do that. This isn’t about same-sex marriage. This is about the –
PETE DAVIES:
But you just said before it was!
NIGEL SCULLION:
This is about the mechanism under which our country makes sure our jurisdictions only legislate in those areas under which they’re allowed. And that’s quite clearly set out under Section 51. I don’t think States or Territories should in fact be able to have their own army, should be able to tax income, should be able to make their own currency. I don’t think that should be the case. I don’t think that’s right for the Territory, or Queensland. In Australia, they are Commonwealth matters, and they should remain Commonwealth matters. This legislation is just a mechanism under which when a State or Territory legislates in those areas, this is just the mechanism under which those laws are struck aside as unconstitutional. There’s a gap in the Constitution, and I know it’s complex, but this has about as much to do with Territory rights as flying to the moon.
PETE DAVIES:
We’ll leave that debate there. We’ll lay it on the table, Nigel, how’s that?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Oh, that’s the go. Yeah, no worries mate. Well it will always be an ongoing debate mate, it will always be an ongoing debate. I commend you very much to the debate we’ve had on the rights of the Northern Territory to deal with matters like euthanasia without an automatic fear of Parliament. I spoke very vigorously on that matter and I will continue to support the Territory’s rights in that matter. Because that is about Territory rights and my views are clearly on the record.
PETE DAVIES:
Okay, speaking about Territory rights. This Saturday, of course, our I Float and I Vote campaign – this is about the Australian Marine Conservation Society’s submission to Federal Environment Minister, Tony Burke. They’re intention to get Minister Burke to sign off on a deal that would close twelve areas of the Northern Territory coastline. As a community we have said no, not on. Now, you’re on your way back to the Top End and I believe you will be there as one of our guest speakers.
NIGEL SCULLION:
Yeah mate, I’m looking forward to it. I’ve got a bit of driving to do and flying, but as long as Qantas doesn’t do anything, or Virgin, or whoever, doesn’t get in my way, I’ll be there bright and sparky on Saturday morning mate.
PETE DAVIES:
As a Northern Territory Senator, can you impress upon people how important it is for us to send a clear message to Canberra that this ain’t on?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well mate, these are the sort of things, and these are the sort of grassroots movements that change what happens in Parliament. And it’s very important that we’re sending a clear signal also to Paul Henderson, that he’s part of the same party that run government and he has a great deal of leverage. And in fact without the co-operation of the Northern Territory, I suspect that this Marine Protected Area program rollout won’t be successful. It won’t be able to achieved, so they can play a very real role in this.
PETE DAVIES:
So what you’re saying is that if Hendo picked up the phone to Tony Burke and said, “Burkey, mate, I’m not going to play with this one, I won’t cooperate.” It’s all over?
NIGEL SCULLION:
Well it would be. In fact, what they’d do is they’d go and try to roll one out in another place. And I have to say when we were in Government they were trying to roll out exactly the same program in the Northern Territory. I was vocally against my own politics and political team at that stage and in fact they actually went and rolled out the South-Western Australian one first. Because I was an angry ant and they thought “oh well” so that’s why we’ve been left until last. But we don’t need any protection. We don’t have large industrial, either agricultural or industrial run-off. We don’t have those sort of levels of fishing or over-fishing. We are a pristine area. And just by suddenly saying, oh well we’ll cut it all into pieces and give someone else the crayons at the end of the year so they can change things? In fact, we’re taking away the right of the Department of Fisheries, who have managed our fisheries over very difficult debates we’ve had, but at least we’ve had the debates. We are cutting-edge world class fisheries, managers, and managers of the environment. It’s now being handed over, lock, stock and barrel, away from our fisheries managers to some pack of boneheads in Canberra sitting in Environment Australia. They are never going to do as good a job of looking after our environment, and they’re never going to do a better job than in fact’s being done by the Department of Fisheries in the Northern Territory. They should be able to continue to manage our fisheries excellently at a world standard as we have in the past. We don’t need this imposition from Canberra, and we should fight it all the way mate.
PETE DAVIES:
Nigel, good to talk to you. See you Saturday.
NIGEL SCULLION:
All right, mate. See you Saturday.
PETE DAVIES:
The Country Liberals Senator for the Northern Territory, Nigel Scullion.
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